[Freedom-misc] Re : I think the Raptor machines run Trisquel

lcerf at dcc.ufmg.br lcerf at dcc.ufmg.br
Sun Sep 9 23:00:48 CEST 2018


If someone says, debian main contains software you may not use, share, modify  
and redistribute then everyone should rebute him.

Nobody said that.  However, a case can be made w.r.t. the Artistic License  
1.0 (and, I guess, a few other uncommon licenses): Debian considers it  
DFSG-compliant; the FSF does not consider it FSDG-compliant.

Would it not be more efficient if there was a cooperation between trisquel  
and debian such that trisquel would get the software before any non free  
software gets added?

As chaosmonk told you: Ubuntu adds free software too.  And it improves upon  
Debian's package (see the word "ubuntu" in the versions of many packages that  
Trisquel ships).  Most package helpers written by Trisquel developers remove  
recommendations for proprietary software.  Those recommendations are present  
in Debian.  Ubuntu does not add them.

Notice also that Debian's separation between main and non-free is not much  
better than Ubuntu's separation between main/universe and  
restricted/multiverse.  As a consequence, I do not understand why it would be  
"more efficient" to base Trisquel on Debian.  I mentioned the Artistic  
License 1.0 above but the reverse "misclassification" (from FSDG's  
perspective) is more common: Debian considers the GNU FDL with invariant  
section(s) (typically the GNU manifesto) nonfree.

If not then adding and removing the same software is stupid and ought to be  
avoided. Why can't it be avoided?

I do not know what you are talking about.  Care to give examples of Trisquel  
reverting changes that Ubuntu introduces?

Why is trisquel derived from ubuntu and not debian?

It used to.  According to quidam (Trisquel's leader) when the switch was made  
(I hope I remember well), it was because Ubuntu has more and more recent free  
software than Debian stable.  That is still true.  Also, gNewSense is based  
on Debian.  (I know: the gNewSense project is apparently dormant and Debian  
stable currently has more recent software than Trisquel... but still less  
recent than the latest Ubuntu LTS that Trisquel 9 will have as a base).

Could trisquel not deal with that part of the configuration by providing a  
script which people would then run if they wanted to?

I believe you are referring to fetching the software from a third-party  
server (otherwise, it is adding packages absent from Ubuntu to Trisquel's  
repository: that happens), such as Ubuntu's or the upstream developers'  
repository.  That would not satisfy the FSDG.  More specifically, that  
paragraph, which is the one I am constantly discussing in this post:

A free system distribution must not steer users towards obtaining any nonfree  
information for practical use, or encourage them to do so. The system should  
have no repositories for nonfree software and no specific recipes for  
installation of particular nonfree programs. Nor should the distribution  
refer to third-party repositories that are not committed to only including  
free software; even if they only have free software today, that may not be  
true tomorrow. Programs in the system should not suggest installing nonfree  
plugins, documentation, and so on.
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

Also, that would not be user-friendly.

I asked fsf to tell all and every cost fsf defrey regarding trisquel for the  
years 2016 and 2017? And I asked how many use trisquel or how may they think  
use trisquel? I got no answers.

See https://www.fsf.org/about/financial for FSF's finances.

The answer to your first question is 0.  The FSF employs quidam (Trisquel's  
leader) but for administrating its servers.  Not for working on Trisquel.   
Estimating the number of users of Trisquel is hard and I do not see why the  
FSF should spend effort on that.  https://trisquel.info/download tells us  
that Trisquel 8's final ISO was downloaded 38490 times.  That is not the  
number of Trisquel 8 users: I downloaded a release candidate, I upgraded  
(rather than doing a fresh install) my parents' computer from Trisquel 7 to  
Trisquel 8, a same ISO can be used to install Trisquel on many machines, etc.

Stallman told me, fsf will not obtain a talos computer because fsf already  
has free software computers and a talos computer would be too expensive.

That looks reasonable.

There are other free software systems than trisquel.  If trisquel gets money  
from fsf, it should stop.

It does not.  Although I would love if it did.  The FSF used to pay Ian  
Murdock for developing Debian (full-time, around 1995).  It could now pay  
quidam, part-time, for developing Trisquel.


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